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We'll also have a fascinating conversation with author Ron Franscell whose new book "Shadow Man" is a fascinating look at the first serial killer case in which the FBI used techniques that we now know as "profiling" and that form the basis of many TV shows and movies. https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/639738/shadowman-by-ron-franscell/ and there's more about Ron here: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/authors/254885/ron-franscell/